The Land of Retards and Hypocrites

I find two items interesting today. One is an online petition titled “Demand for withdrawal of a flawed book on Hindu History published by PENGUIN” is making the rounds. Addressed to the presidents of the Penguin Group and Penguin India Pvt Ltd, it says, “The Hindus: An Alternative History” by Wendy Doniger “is rife with numerous errors in its historical facts and Sanskrit translations. These errors and misrepresentations are bound and perhaps intended to mislead students of Indian and Hindu history.” The other item is the story about M F Husain giving up his Indian citizenship and becoming a citizen of Qatar.

To my mind they are related. They reveal much about the mentality of Indians and their government. To the various epithets that adorn India such as “the most populous democracy” and “land of elephants and tigers” must be added “the land of the largest bunch of retards” and “home of the most hypocritical governments in the world.”

They are related thusly. The retards vote the hypocritical governments into power with sickening predictability, and in turn the governments make sure that the retards stay uninformed and retarded.

The governments routinely divide the population along religious lines with total impunity. What’s really surprising is that the government discriminates against the people of the majority religion — Hindus — and is openly biased towards the largest religious minority — Muslims. One would have thought that in a democracy where an overwhelming majority are Hindus, the governments would as least be not biased against Hindus. At the very least they would make absolutely certain that the Hindus don’t feel like second class citizens in the only country that Hindus have.

(An aside: Hinduism is hard to define. The operational definition that I use is that it is the aggregate set of beliefs and practices of the people of India who do not self-identify themselves as Muslims, Christians, Sikhs, and Buddhists. It is a “residual” definition. I have deliberately not excluded Jains because I consider them to be a very strict and special sub-set of Hindus, and anyway Jains form a very tiny minority, and for the purposes of this point, they don’t matter. Hinduism also differs from the other major religions. Hinduism is not a world religion, unlike say Christianity and Islam. There are scores of Muslim and Christian majority nations around the world. In contrast to that, to a first approximation, all Hindus are Indians or the descendants of Indians abroad. Hinduism as a religion is only found in India.)

I am forced to the conclusion that India is a basically a land of retards ruled by hypocrites. The most important aspect of the retarded, as I have mentioned before, is that they elect governments that do their best to keep Indians poor. India is poor because of the policies that the governments choose. India is poor by choice. All the talk and all the actions of the governments have always been almost diametrically opposite of those that would promote economic growth and consequently development. I think it was Milton Friedman who noted that for any economy to prosper, what it has to do is to implement the policies that are exactly the opposite of India’s policies.

In any case, right now I want to get to another matter that illustrates the retarded character of the Indian public. It is this: they give ammunition for others to use against them.

Wendy Doniger’s “The Hindus: An Alternative History” must make fascinating reading to some. I know precious little history, including Hindu history. I know even less about psycho-sexual Freudian theories. To me they appear to be two separate domains, something like the separation between the domains of quantum mechanics and natural healing. According to some, Doniger gets off on writing about weird sexual practices and concocting fabulous theories about the sexual meaning of ordinary tales of Hindu mythological figures. Whatever floats her boat, I say. If she wants to connect the psycho-sexual and Hindu mythology, that’s her prerogative. As far as I am concerned, the book fills a much-needed gap, as Moses Hadas (1900-1960) had said about some other book. And like he said, “Thank you for sending me a copy of your book; I’ll waste no time reading it.”

Some Hindus are up in arms about Wendy’s book and have petitioned the Penguin Group:


1. WITHDRAW all the copies of this book immediately from the worldwide bookshops/markets/Universities/Libraries and refrain from printing any other edition.

2. APOLOGIZE for having published this book “The Hindus: An Alternative History”. This book seriously and grossly misrepresents the Hindu reality as known to the vast numbers of Hindus and to scholars of Hindu tradition. PENGUIN must apologize for failure to observe proper pre-publication scrutiny and scholarly review.

That’s USDA Grade AA retardedness. There are about 80 signatures to the petition at the time of this writing.

I can understand people telling Penguin to fix factual errors. I appreciate the work the petitioners have done in pointing out the errors. They should publish the errors or petition Penguin to publish the rebuttal. They can write newspaper op-eds and reviews of the book. But asking for the withdrawal of the book is not a smart thing to do. Doniger may be a deranged person with a vicious agenda against the Hindus. But she must not be silenced. If what she says is wrong, then her views need to be contradicted, not her right to publish or the publisher’s right to publish what they want. If you don’t like reading what Doniger writes, don’t read her.

We must stand for free expression. That is at the core of all human progress. Even thought that one disagrees with. Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes put it succinctly, “not free thought for those who agree with us but freedom for the thought we hate.” There is a very practical and self-interested need for this. If you deny others the right to free speech for whatever reason, others will also deny you the freedom of speech when it suits them.

These people who want Doniger’s book withdrawn are handing out ammunition to their enemies. These people are behaving like retards. They are surrendering what I consider to be their most potent weapon. Allow me to repeat what I wrote earlier in “The Danger of Surrendering our Most Potent Weapon” (Jan 28, 2010):

Human societies that allow the free expression of ideas do better than those that don’t allow new ideas. The evidence is all around for us to see.

For those of us who value human civilization and human progress — or even those who are merely interested in economic growth and development — our best tools are ideas. The source of these ideas is free people who have the freedom to bring forth new ideas. We progress only by looking at things in new ways, which is what ideas allow us to do. The minimal condition necessary for ideas is the freedom of speech.

Freedom of speech and expression has value in itself but it is also instrumental in giving rise to good ideas. The ancients in India realized the power of ideas. A Rig Vedic prayer roughly translates into “Let Noble Thoughts Come to Us From All Directions.”

It’s a war out there. The war is eventually one of ideas. Those who are short of ideas, are forced to resort to weapons. Suicide bombings, terrorism, rioting in the streets — all these are done by people who have no good ideas and are so threatened by the power of ideas that they seek to destroy those who have good ideas.

Look around and see who are the terrorists and suicide bombers and rioters. They don’t have ideas, and perhaps know that they cannot compete and lash out in their fury to show that they do have some power. Terrorism is the weapon of the powerless and the idea-less.

Surrendering the freedom of speech is stupid. It is stupid to surrender the most potent source of one’s strengths.

It is a mystery to me why some apparently smart people don’t understand the need for the absolute freedom of expression. Don’t they get it that that is the source of all progress?

Now to the hypocritical governments. They talk loudly about development and then do everything that retards economic growth. It started with Nehru. The problem is that it did not end with Nehru. His progeny continue to rule and destroy India with Nehruvian socialistic policies. Even if the progeny of Nehru get good counsel and realize the folly of Nehruvian policies, they cannot change course as it would directly imply that Nehru’s policies were retarded. Repudiating Nehruvian socialism is not possible by Nehru’s descendants. Divide and rule is an idea that Nehru inherited from the British (as much of everything else). His descendants continue to do as he did.

Caste and religion divides are much beloved of the Congress governments. There are poor people in India by the hundreds of millions. The poor belong to every caste. There are Hindu, Sikh, Christian and Muslim poor. But, as the ‘care-taker’ prime minister Mr Manmohan Singh put it, only the religious minorities (read Muslims) have a right to relief and have a claim to India’s resources. Naked, shameless, unprincipled pandering doesn’t get any more sickening. The man’s dividing of the poor of India into the “deserving poor” (minority religion people) and the “undeserving poor” should have earned him universal opprobrium. Should have but it passed almost without comment.

Mr Singh is not stupid. He dares to do it because he knows that the retards will not figure it out how dangerous his policies are. Mr Singh is of course right in his assessment. No politician has ever lost an election by underestimating the intelligence and morality of the Indian voter, to paraphrase H L Mencken.

Mr Manmohan Singh knows as well as I do that the Indians are retards. He does not have to say it but his policies are consistent with his assessment. I say it but then I don’t have to be politically correct. I will be vilified by the “chatterati” for saying this but that’s not a very good reason for me not to say it like I see it.

I don’t know how one can simultaneously claim to be a secular democracy and also discriminate against people based on their religion. The examples abound. Mr Rushdie’s book was banned because it would hurt the sentiments of Muslims in India. Then artistic freedom was not trotted out as a principle worth defending. Anyone doing anything anywhere that would hurt Muslim sentiments is worth gagging, killing, imprisoning, and deporting. Ms Taslima Nasreen, for instance, was hounded out of India despite her many impassioned pleas for sanctuary in India.

Another example. The control of Hindu temples rests with the government and it appropriates the donations that Hindus make in temples. It uses the revenues of Hindu temples for its own use. The government supports Muslim pilgrimages from taxes taken forcibly from non-muslims. This is jaziya, a tax that non-muslims are forced to pay for being allowed to live under Islamic rule. As a non-muslim, I find this policy to be abhorrent, unjust, malicious and in the end, undermines the very basis of a secular society — non-discrimination based on religion.

The list of what the government does to protect the delicate sensibilities of Muslims is long and interesting. A bunch of cartoonists doing their work 10,000 miles away apparently poses a danger to India’s social harmony. But when it comes to Mr M F Husain painting nudes of Hindu icons, artistic freedom is paramount. Mr Husain is celebrated in Indian government publications. When hoodlums vandalize Mr Husain’s property, the outrage against “Hindu taliban” is deafening. But when Ms Taslima Nasrin is roughed up by hoodlums, the reaction is to hound her out of the country.

When Muslim terrorists kill people by the scores, the oh-so-secular main stream Indian press is quick to point out that Hindu fundamentalists are all over the place. This gives cover to the LeT and other Islamic organizations who have proclaimed as loudly as they can that they are sworn to destroy “Hindu” India and claim it for Islam.

I am sickened by the government hypocrisy. But bothers me more is the retarded behavior of the Indian public. If the public were not retarded, the hypocrites like Mr Manmohan Singh would have been shoveling shit in Louisiana.

Mr Husain apparently has become a citizen of Qatar. The annual per capita GDP of Qatar is US$ 86,000, the highest in the world. It’s a great choice for Mr Husain. Besides, since the government is overtly Islamic (unlike the Indian government that only covertly follows the dictates of Islam), Mr Husain will have the freedom to paint nude Hindu goddesses which the rich citizens of Qatar and the Islamic world would pay millions of dollars for. Mr Husain can do his painting without being bothered by the “Hindu taliban” (an expression much beloved of Vir Sanghvi.)

Mr Husain’s move is good for the Indian government too. It will not have to confront charges of hypocrisy that it protects Husain and persecutes people like Taslima Nasrin.

I think that Mr Husain made the right move. May his tribe increase by the millions who want the right to impose their religious dictates on others. May all those who think that their religion mandates the killing of infidels follow Mr Husain’s example and take up Qatari citizenship.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Related posts:

Abolish the Haj Subsidy. Aug 2009.

I have written a fair bit on freedom of expression. It is a non-negotiable right, in my opinion. Here are a few from that category.

Defending Free Speech. Jan 2009.

Weep for Taslima, and then for India. May 2007.

Forbidding Expression — Part 1. Nov 2007.

Forbidding Expression — Part 2.

Author: Atanu Dey


67 thoughts on “The Land of Retards and Hypocrites”

  1. Hello Sir,

    Being a young man of 20 born and brought up in Mumbai, I always thought that religious hatred, and speaking bad about any religion in general, was the job of illiterate and misguided people.

    However, why do you, being of high honor, indulge in such practices ?

    Just tell me. What perspective would your children develop about Muslims if they ever read your blog and have some Muslim friends ?

    I would like to know your response on this.


    1. Mr Choudhari:

      I think you harbor a hidden animosity towards Muslims because going by your comment, I see that you are reading into my post anti-muslim sentiments. Note that I have said nothing against Muslims, and yet you read that in the post. I have said a lot about the general retarded mentality of the average Indian, I have said a lot about the discrimination that the government of India indulges in, I have said a lot about the freedom of expression and so on. None of that registered with you. The only thing you do is to insinuate that I have “religious hatred.” May I suggest a bit of introspection for you? Perhaps you will learn the distinction between people and ideologies. In case you need help making that distinction, please read my blog. Many of my posts deal with making that distinction.

      I am always willing to help others who have hidden hatred towards groups of people.


  2. Why would people want to publish rebuttals? That would require them to
    actually read the book and exercise a remaining brain cell or two.
    Far easier to make a knee jerk representation to ban it.

    If you take a look at the wonderful comments on articles, one thing comes clear- Indians love to quote their personal opinions as facts. Critical thinking and reasoning are unknown to the majority, another side effect of our learning-by-rote-memorization education system.

    The scary thing is how many educated Indians subscribe to the view that freedom of speech is not important. ‘It is an American concept and so won’t work here’, ‘it will hurt sentiments and cause riots’ etc.


  3. @Hrishikesh,

    Honour does not come by refusing to acknowledge a problem. It comes by fighting for you freedom. When an ideology preaches intolerance and disrespect towards other human beings and threatens basic human rights, it deserves to be spoken about in bad terms.


  4. I am surprised at Hrishikesh Choudhari’s presumptuous comment.

    Atanu Dey has only stated the facts.

    The very literate opinion maker , writer & strategist of BJP Cho Ramaswamy also defended hussain’s wantonly mischievous scribblings (I can’t call it a painting) whereas supported muslims who attacked Taslima citing ” she hurt the religious sensitivities of muslims “.

    Even islamic countries including pakistan DO NOT provide haj subsidies. Very many gullible hindu devotees don’t even know about the looting of our Temples. How horrendous our earnest offerings satiate the hunger of beef eaters((

    Where a shabana can mock a hindu in ” A Plate of Rice ” with such brazen arrogance can we hindus portray their true colours via such movies ? Do you think indian allegedly secular literate muslims like salman kurshids , saeed naqvis & shabanas leave alone the obscurantist are capable of laughing at themselves??

    The magnanimity & tolerance intrinsic to Hinduism have only been exploited to coercing us into swallowing all unwarranted insults & injustices. For what?? So that the appeasers stay in power.


  5. Indian muslims & their sympathizers never tire of crying wolf citing (sic)babri masjid demolition. A lie by repeated assertion if not challenged does seem to get the patina of truth.

    Let the fact be known to all ill informed hindus as was brilliantly pointed out by Varsha Bhosle ” we hindus only rearranged the structure of OUR RAM TEMPLE….we DID NOT demolish any masjid…”.

    Tamil Nadu’s chief minister a self confessed hindu hater cum muslim appeaser decreed all shops selling alcohol including bars in five star hotels be closed on Feb 27 to honour the sentiments of muslims.

    Am reminded of arrogant hiranyakashipu & his selective hatred for Lord MahaVishnu.


  6. Hello Hrishikesh…
    Young or Old does it matter ? First question to you is
    1. You always thought about Religious Hatred and speaking bad about religion is the job of illiterate and misguided People. No Reasons, why you think so..?
    2. Strip religions of their sacredness that you come to believe about[without any reason, just because you are told so,] that would be your first step to enlightenment.
    3. You are young, so u have loads of time to find out the truth.
    4. I won’t preach you, you read history, find the truth… truth will always set you free…..
    5. As far as me I am well educated, I call prophet Mohammad a mass murderer and rapist, here I am not abusing a religion or anyone, I simple described Mohammad for the man he was. I would rather speak truth than shower pleasant lies.
    6. Now you just question about why I did so…. and try to find out answers.. that effort would set you free and lead u to truth..
    7. 20 years is not young that is the age when i almost got realized of what India is, media is, what truth is what it is not. now i am 26



  7. >> speaking bad about any religion in general

    Honestly, you sound illiterate and misguided to me, Choudhari. 20 years is that time in life when people are still honest and are not afraid of questioning authority, but you have already closed your mind to reason at that age. Because you swallowed the argument that religion should not be challenged, and failed to ask, even if out of mild curiosity that even young children possess, “but why not?”.

    I recommend Pat Condell to you. “Hi, I am Pat Condell, I don’t respect your beliefs and I don’t care if you are offended. Cheers”.

    Before you begin to enjoy, you might want to know that commie dipweeds, evangelicals and Islamists speak bad about atheists like Pat Condell. You will find their comments right on this blog. Another reason why, as a young man of 20, you should like him, even if you are not an atheist.


  8. Recently in a televised debate on BBC , teesta & seema mustafa whined about “muslims facing discrimination in India…that there are no muslim IAS officers…”. ROTFL.

    MJ Akbar & Sachin Pilot did nothing at all to counter this fundamentally presumptuous & flawed premise.

    All that I strongly felt throughout was , if muslims are so disgruntled why not they settle down in Saudi Arabia including shah rukh & amir khans ,their appeasers ram vilas paswans , laloo mulayam yadavs? Their allegiance is to their ummah. So why not leave India for good ? Instead of forcing hindus to bend over backwards proving their secular credentials??

    Most Hindu godmen are clueless, idiotised hodge podge peace brokers.The very definition of God & Dharma of muslims is violently in opposition of what our Vedas stand for.


  9. The fun part here is, people worldwide are terrified of hurting the
    sentiments of Muslims. No one asks how they get to impose their narrow beliefs on others.
    Depiction of Mohammed’s face(among many other things) is forbidden according to Islam. But hey, guess what, I don’t subscribe to your religion. And if I decide to make a huge painting of Mohammed (or a newspaper cartoon), you are perfectly free NOT to look at it and get offended.

    The same standard also applies to those who would censor MF Hussain for his paintings of goddesses- no one is forcing you to go to his art gallery and see his paintings.

    Every time we hear ‘_______ is against Islam.’ And every time we act in utter fright of having a fatwa issued or some fanatic coming out to kill.
    Islam maybe shouted as a religion of peace, if so it is the most disobeyed religion in history.


    1. JB, thanks for the link.

      I do believe that Mr Murthy is well-meaning and a very successful businessman. But I am unable to agree with him on many of his main points. He says,

      “[People of the West] care more for the society than we do. Further, they generally sacrifice more for the society than us. Quality of life is enhanced because of this. This is where we need to learn form the West.”

      That’s his opinion and wholly unsupported by any evidence. I have lived in the West long enough to realize that Westerners are no more into sacrificing for the good of society than Indians are. Economists like to tell us that people respond to incentives. Our collective behavior emerges out of rational individual behavior, and that is basically molded by the incentive structures that are in society.

      It is true that the incentive structure is itself the result of the collective consciousness and behavior of the society. So to that extent, perhaps Indians are collectively stupid and they have designed an incentive structure that is suboptimal and less efficient than the ones that Westerners have. I will not argue against the proposition that collectively Indians are stupid. That is more or less self-evident.

      In any event, Murthy’s speech has much that I would take issues with. I am surprised that he appears to not understand the genesis of corruption in India. But that is a matter for a different post.


  10. Atanu,

    You have hit the nail on the head! I am extremely surprised by the casual attitude of my tax-paying friends at the large-scale wastage of their tax money. If educated people are so unconcerned about misuse of public funds, we can look forward to more idiotic/hypocritical governments in the future. Kids are brainwashed in school about the virtues of ‘mixed economy’ and how the Great Leader Nehru steered the newly independent nation. How can these people be made to open their eyes to reality ?


  11. I was actually taken aback by the “rant” mode. I would have loved to see him give this speech at a govt/political gathering though instead of at a student gathering.

    Personally, I found myself volunteering my time for various charities while at a US university and while working in the US. The thought never occurred to me while at school/college in India. Secondly, my experience has been that mobilizing support for community goals is much easier in the West (particularly US) than in India.

    Now, the argument above is superficial because the reasons for difference are quite likely a function of the economic and education levels of the people – more educated parents will perhaps inculcate greater social values in children, a country with poor people might not be all that inclined/educated towards social values because the people have to spend all their time surviving against the odds and developing disgust for the ineffective institutions. So, perhaps Murthy is making superficial observations while not focusing on the underlying issues.

    However, there are a few points which go beyond economic issues. In particular quoting from his speech:

    – have not come across another society where people are as contemptuous of better societies as we are, with as little progress as we have achieved.

    – in India, we tend to overlook the significance of those who are not in professional jobs. We have a mindset that reveres only supposedly intellectual work.

    – Indians become intimate even without being friendly.

    – In India, I have seen that we tend to view even work interactions from a personal perspective.

    – I have seen people, who are otherwise bright, refusing to show independence and preferring to be told what to do by their boss.

    – For example, our political leaders use mobile phones to tell journalists on the other side that they do not believe in technology! If we want our youngsters to progress, such hypocrisy must be stopped.

    And, I would add to this list many other things like plagiarism (Bollywood), cutting corners, etc.

    Even if the comparisons with the West may not be accurate (and granted that that is his main theme), the points are valid in isolation. I think this is fairly significant coming from a man who has played a leading role in current accomplishments by India and who is upheld as a role model for youngsters and corporate India.


  12. All that I have been expecting.

    @Mr. Dey: You are right. I need to learn to distinguish between people and idealogies. You are also wrong. I do not have anything against Muslims. The last 2 girlfriends I had were Muslims. (And then I did not break up with them because of their thinking, but that they moved 1000 kms away for studies). I have been reading your posts for the past couple of months now, and it seems we share the frustration towards the slow pace of development in India.

    And also the frustration that descends upon a thinking man when his rationale is shoved aside by unthinking minds. I have tried to introduce a number of innovative practices in my college. Right from professor-accountability to university-wide document management systems. All of them were swept aside by really unthought comments. The students showed much greater apathy than the management of the college. I think I could draw a line from my college setbacks to your development efforts. ( I dont know how successful you have been in your efforts, I havent looked for your background. Sorry about that. But you dont have a wiki).


    I have been fortunate to go on an Exchange program last year to Zayed University in UAE. The students there are intellectually bright. No doubt about that. But as we went into idealogical beliefs, the female students there had no qualms whatsoever about polygamy, or hijab or inheritance, or anything else for that matter. I thought – “meh.. if they themselves are good with it.. fine by me..” but then i found that the same ideology that i had made my peace with promoted killing of other tribes, blood money, etc. When I spoke to my classmates about the same, the young people expressed the same uneasiness as any Marathi young man / woman would express at Shiv Sena’s antics. And lastly, speaking bad about those intolerant religions wouldnt set the religions right. We should bear in mind that all religions are indoctrinations. Maybe if we could indoctrinate the young people into a belief of tolerance.

    @the topmost Anonymous person:

    When I was introduced to the NY exchange students by the professor as an “indian – a person whose country hasnt gone to war unprovoked in the last 10,000 years…” I was taken aback. First of all, I didnt know that. Still dont know if its a fact or not. Maybe we need not attack another country outside our borders. We’ve been doing enough attacks within the country. But anyways, I am regressing. I said to the class that I am not proud of the fact that India hasnt gone to war. It simply shows lack of decisiveness on the part of our politicians. I dont like the magnanimity of the indian kings in the past. Thus, I agree with your last paragraph.

    And if we are nurturing hatred towards others because they looted and plundered our country hundreds of years ago, we have something wrong with ourselves. We should’ve overcome those setbacks and made our country even richer. And if people are looting and plundering our nation today, then again we have something wrong with ourselves, for the courts and the intelligence of the country have already failed us.


    1. My only reason – any reasonably educated and well-thinking individual would find out in no time that gods and religions and ideologies are man made.

    2. I have already seen a god being created. About a mile from my house was a dirty nullah, dont know how old. As I passed by every day while travelling to-and-fro school, the spot kept getting dirtier. People would defecate and other stuff. One fine week, the spot was cleared. The next week construction began. About a month later, the temple was finished. And two days later, a huge crowd pulled towards the newly built temple.. old and young alike.. with “fervour and hope and aspirations” in their hearts. In the following years, my mom made it her regular temple since it was close to our home. I said no. And have been an atheist ever since. That was in the 7th std.

    3 & 4. Right. I am young. If I can manage with all my semester exams and preparations and other competitive exams, then I have decided to finish reading ALL the major religious and philosophical texts before I am 25. Just to see what the fuss is all about.

    5. Right again. While reading Herodotus, I had a direct passage translated about Mohammed. He DID approve of those wrong things.

    6. Same as 3 and 4.

    7. I stopped watching TV since I was in the 9th std. Just to retain my sanity.


    Sorry if my writing lacked clarity.

    I have challenged authority many times in my past. Though I dont have any alibi to show. And i have failed quite a number of times against the authorities.

    As I have detailed in my response to Rann (right above), I am an atheist since 12 years of age. And I am curios enough to for my own safety.

    The quote from Pat Condell is going on my bike now. And maybe the car, if I get one.


    The only thing that spurred me to comment on Mr. Dey’s post was a TOI article that I finished reading just before I came to his blog.

    The article was about hundreds of young people in Kashmir who dont have jobs and dont have any concrete future so to speak of. They were born and raised in a military ( and militant ) area. The same harsh ideas must have been pounded into the minds while they grew up. I just hope that Kashmir doesnt become a terror-recruitment-hotspot, if it has not already become. My ONLY belief is that a young person, if brought up in an environment where mindful inquiry and physical well being is upheld, then that person shall go on to become one of you enlightened people.

    But now please tell me, how would you tell a Hindu / Muslim / Christian kid that his religion has a violent history, and that it should stop believing anything that mom-dad-grandma-teacher-tv tells you ?

    That, should have been my first question in the first place.

    I request your responses.


    1. Mr Choudhari:

      You write,

      I do not have anything against Muslims. The last 2 girlfriends I had were Muslims.

      I am gratified to know that you are a heterosexual with a normal sexual drive. But that statement is a dead giveaway. It is analogous to “I am not a sexist; some of my best friends are of the female persuation” or “I am not a racist, some of my best friends are blacks,” or “I am not anti-homosexuals, some of my best buddies are gay.” Those statements belong to the set of “She doth protest her honor too much.” I don’t expect you to understand fully why your protestations fall flat but there you have it.

      I am, as I said very gratified that you are a heterosexual but I am afraid that it is totally irrelevant to my suspicion that you harbor a secret hatred against Muslims. You may be compensating by lusting after Muslim females but that is besides the point. Please don’t drag your personal prejudices and preferences into a public discussion about the failings of the Indian government.

      You go on to write,

      “I have been reading your posts for the past couple of months now, and it seems we share the frustration towards the slow pace of development in India.”

      Thanks for your kindness in reading my blog. I am much obliged. The fact, however is, that I have been writing for a few years. Unless you are extremely fast in reading comprehension — and you have not demonstrated that you indeed are — it is unlikely that you have gathered the full import of what my position is.

      You then write,

      “And also the frustration that descends upon a thinking man when his rationale is shoved aside by unthinking minds.”

      I confess that I don’t comprehend what that means. Perhaps it is profound beyond mortal comprehension. But more likely it is gibberish. So I will pass over it without comment.

      You claim,

      I have tried to introduce a number of innovative practices in my college. Right from professor-accountability to university-wide document management systems. All of them were swept aside by really unthought comments. The students showed much greater apathy than the management of the college. I think I could draw a line from my college setbacks to your development efforts. ( I dont know how successful you have been in your efforts, I havent looked for your background. Sorry about that. But you dont have a wiki).

      Wow! Document management system!! I am impressed. And that too when you are only 20 years old !!! I am sure that I and all the readers of this blog are awesomely amazed, astonished, surprised, astounded and delighted at your precocious genius. Now we are forced to take you seriously. Whatever you say has to be the most important truths. Your opinions have to be taken as gospel truth (pardon the use of an idiom that makes no bloody sense.) Wow. Allow me to take a break as I pick up my jaw from the floor — they having dropped at reading your incredible declarations. Truly, Mr Chaudari, you are a wonder that only god could have blessed us mortals with.

      You addressed your eminent self to Chandra and wrote:

      I have been fortunate to go on an Exchange program last year to Zayed University in UAE. The students there are intellectually bright. No doubt about that. But as we went into idealogical beliefs, the female students there had no qualms whatsoever about polygamy, or hijab or inheritance, or anything else for that matter.

      I am IMPRESSED. I am impressed, I tell you I am IMPRESSED. You were in UAE? Wow. Is there no end to your exploits!!! And once again I am reminded of your interactions with females. I would normally suspect someone who all the time hints at his heterosexuality of being a closet homosexual. But naah, you cannot be gay. Or can you? Perhaps you are gay and therefore have to hint at your heterosexuality. But never mind. It is not a crime to be gay in India. Whatever floats your boat. As you would say, some of my best friends are gay.

      Moving on, you write,

      And lastly, speaking bad about those intolerant religions wouldnt set the religions right. We should bear in mind that all religions are indoctrinations. Maybe if we could indoctrinate the young people into a belief of tolerance.

      A Daniel come to judgement. (Google to see the reference to that. I don’t suppose you know Shakespeare.) You have passed a sweeping judgement on all religions. I suppose you are intimately familiar with the doctrines of all religions. I am impressed! Only 20 years old and already you have read and understood what ALL religions are all about. Wonderful. Marvelous. Not just that, at the tender age of 20, you already know the answer to the most persistent questions of the world. Should I inform the New York Times or should I leave it to one of the readers of this blog?

      To the “Top anonymous poster” you confess, and I quote:

      But anyways, I am regressing.

      You regressing? Naah. How is that possible? Is that even logically possible? Is it possible to go beyond the beginning? That’s a deep philosophical question: can someone who is at rock bottom sink any lower?

      You claim

      I stopped watching TV since I was in the 9th std. Just to retain my sanity.

      If what you now write is any indication of your retained sanity, I shudder to think what your comment would have been if you had continued to watch TV. Best not to think too deeply about that.

      You address yourself to Oldtimer thusly

      Sorry if my writing lacked clarity.

      I say that we are sorrier about your lack of clarity. Compared to your muddied writing, the bottom of a turbulent cesspool epitomizes brilliance. I hope Oldtimer accepts your apology. Finally, you write

      My ONLY belief is that a young person, if brought up in an environment where mindful inquiry and physical well being is upheld, then that person shall go on to become one of you enlightened people.

      I wonder just idly about the misfortune that befell you that you were not brought up in an environment of “mindful inquiry and physical well being” as evidenced by your concrete thinking. Your thinking resembles concrete in that it is all mixed up and appears to be permanently set.

      Good luck Mr Choudhari. You need all the luck. Give your parents my regards and convey my deep sympathies to them.

      PS: You may not realize it but you have been flamed. That’s one of the dangers of posting comments without doing your homework. Now do learn your lesson and read a good deal before you demonstrate your incompetence. Thank you.


  13. Atanu, you can flame one such Mr. Choudhari, but there are hundreds of millions of Mr. Choudharis in India and of Indian origin. Incapable of tracing root causes, analyzing complex situations, fixing broken systems. We seem to be into endgame here…

    Parting shot: excerpt from random blog comments about gender equality:

    P1: When you leave out the wallet, men have precious little to contribute to the family.

    P2: Do you realize how insulting your comment is to women?


    1. Anonymous Coward:

      True there are millions of Mr Choudharis. Flaming one of them is not going to be of much use. Yet one tries one’s best. What else is a body to do? Every little bit helps. Perhaps some of Mr Choudhari’s ilk will read the flame and get properly chastised. God knows we need to do whatever it takes.


  14. The post is titled – The Land of Retards and Hypocrites – and the Choudhary dude comes and farts big time on the comment section. Talk of irony!


    1. kautilya:

      Exactly my thought. I was just wondering that the post is about retards and how they are the bane of India. And as if right on cue, there comes Mr Choudhari to demonstrate that the problem of retards is not an abstraction but a sad reality. Sigh.


  15. I don’t know Atanu, that doesn’t sound anywhere near the US brand of ‘dumb’. Yes, its disgraceful that its happening in India, but this isn’t anywhere near the ‘tea parties’ and opposition to health care in the US ( in dumb-ness I mean ).
    Also, I have a difficult time, as a regular person, agreeing with your statement that ‘non-retarded’ people would vote a decent government into office. First of all, how does a regular person ( in India that would be someone with, what, a 4th grade education? ) know what government policies are good for him/her? Secondly, how can they trust one scumbag politician over another scumbag politician, even if they can differentiate between their policies?? How can people punish a government in office for lying/corruption during elections when they know the ‘other guy’ will do the same thing?
    I live in Canada, and I usually vote with great skepticism even here. As far back as I can remember, a party in power will rarely be ousted based on a sound policy assessment by the population. Emotional reasons are usually the #1 cause actually. A charismatic leader, or anger because of a scandal, etc. Although i can say I haven’t been a voting member of society for very long, so I can easily be wrong about this.


    1. gGill:

      You write:

      Also, I have a difficult time, as a regular person, agreeing with your statement that ‘non-retarded’ people would vote a decent government into office. First of all, how does a regular person ( in India that would be someone with, what, a 4th grade education? ) know what government policies are good for him/her? Secondly, how can they trust one scumbag politician over another scumbag politician, even if they can differentiate between their policies?? How can people punish a government in office for lying/corruption during elections when they know the ‘other guy’ will do the same thing?

      Very good questions. The voters by and large have a choice between Tweedledum and Tweedledee. The problem is systemic and individuals are incapable of solving the problem. It is a coordination problem that can only be addressed by means that lie outside the system.

      C’est la vie, as my great grand aunt liked to say.


  16. Is there any chance this petition is a PR gimmick by the promoters of the book? Controversy means lot of free publicity.


  17. =>
    But now please tell me, how would you tell a Hindu / Muslim / Christian kid that his religion has a violent history, and that it should stop believing anything that mom-dad-grandma-teacher-tv tells you ?

    I don’t see anyone in India muzzling others when they talk about Sati, Dalit oppression and untouchability, and ascribe it to Hinduism without doing much analysis.

    So why a different set of standards for Muslims and Christians? Truth alone triumphs, no?


  18. Comrade Choudhari,

    >>I have challenged authority many times in my past.

    You have not answered my point at all.

    You more or less claimed that people must bend over and kiss religion’s ass. (Perhaps by ‘religion’ you meant Jainism — where’s Alpana Sadya? — but never mind). When asked what is the basis for your fundamentalist claim, you have no answer. You probably are going to a Catholic church where the parish is mostly of ex-brahmin Goans. Some among them are casteists who wanted brahmin brides, no doubt. On top of it some of them could be commies who endorse killings of innocent people. The priest is an upper caste person. And yet you wanna kiss the Church’s ass. What sort of a 20-year old are you? Chee chee. A friend of casteism, imperialism, racism and religious extremism. No wonder your Muslim girlfriend Jahnavi jumped you and also Comrade Sudhakar Nair and probably found a same-sex girlfriend maybe in PubChick. I suggest you put not Pat Condell but the following words on your bike: “I am 20 years old non-commie female, I am an atheist and I don’t kiss religion’s ass, so my Muslim girlfriends, please come back!”

    Warm regards.


  19. Atanu,

    >>True there are millions of Mr Choudharis.

    There’s only one Hrishikesh Choudhari, as far as I can tell.

    >>Flaming one of them is not going to be of much use. Yet one tries one’s best.

    The point is that these millions crave respectability. They want you to take them seriously. In a previous post you mentioned a “sense of inadequacy” among these people. You hit the nail on the head. They are upset by smart guys who are not modest about being smart. They are further upset by smart guys who are not of the same ideological bent as they are. They are intrinsically fanatical, favor violent ideologies and even endorse the murder of innocent people as a matter of legitimate strategy to attain some larger goal, so respect-worthy to the civilized world, they are not.

    A wise man said not to wrestle with the pig — you get all dirty and only the pig enjoys the mud. An alternative version says not to argue with an idiot — he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. I’ve my version: be wary of the guy who pretends to be both a pig and an idiot. He has the advantage of having nothing at stake, and no reputation to lose.


  20. Atanu,

    Yet another instance of “The Land of Retards” that we have come to become. I sometimes wonder is even the Brits were so repressive to freedom of expression as the current bunch of hypocrites who are in power. What has not been reported in the article is that Muslim mobs have attached the house of the author as well as a hospital owned by his daughter and the whole family has had to go in hiding. I would request you to share this news with as many people as you can to raise awareness.



  21. Atanu,

    Looks like you forgot to put your signature at the end

    –It’s all karma, neh?–

    Over years congress government has ensured that we do not build an environment where truth will surface easily. The education system, paid media etc ensures that the young minds are indoctrinated with a false sense of what a good society should look like. Mr. Choudhary proves the point. He cant really be blamed, to see truth today, one has to put dedicated efforts and young people like me and Mr. Choudhary lack both enthusiasm and time for such a pursuit.

    Here is list of books [freely available to read] Indian government doesn’t want us to read.


  22. atanu,

    one point i want 2 mention u had mentioned sikhs as non-hindus, but they are in many respects a part of the hindu fold and acted as a martial race to protect the dharmic religions, it belongs to the dharmic fold and not the abrahamic folds


  23. Its better to ban that book, because Some decades back some english writer wrote a book which states that Tajmahal was a hindu god temple(lord shiva’s) and was converted into a mausoleum by shajahan. At that time Indira Gandhi banned that book. We don’t know the credibility of author but now all that was uploaded into net and available to every citizen. If we read it even we may be misleaded (or it may be true???) that Tajmahal was indeed a hindu temple. So that book may not have any immediate repercussions, but in some future generation person may read that book instead of some authentic hindu books and may believe that as true.


  24. Atanu,

    Are you referring to this series when you talk about milton friedman’s comment on Indian policies vs development potential?

    Enjoyed the flaming, he might have escaped the brunt had he been a little less douchebaggy.


  25. thanks for ur time too choudhary.. i assume u wont be wasting urs and our time any more..
    plz read all the commie sites out there.. there are plenty of them
    this one is not meant for u..

    and so yes.. scoot


  26. We have to understand the root cause of the problem here. The root cause could well be our education system. Our education system teaches people rote learning, not questioning. Children learn at a very young age that if you question conventional wisdom (eg: say nice things about certain religions, extol motherhood, give alms to beggars and applepie to commies etc) you will face retribution. Result? We’re producing millions of Hrishikesh Choudharis in an assembly-line fashion. They close their minds to reason at the very young age of 20, before they are out of college. At 20, they begin to exhibit the dogmatic fanaticism of the 50-year old commie. They monotonously repeat what they learned in 9th grade NCERT social “sciences” textbook, they even quote the Times of India editorial to buttress the point. And the scary part is, they are trained to jump up on dissenters and lynch them.

    I was expecting that lots of these 20-year olds (Arnold, Mathew etc) would be trooping in to declare support for Hrishikesh Murthy, but surprisingly nobody yet. Muslim gf’s must be keeping them busy I guess.


  27. We’re producing millions of Hrishikesh Choudharis in an assembly-line fashion

    I would agree on that totally. But I would also add responsibility on the parents/guardians on this apart from the education these kids got.

    I think in a lot of sense, the previous generation failed to prepare their kids well. And now we have an assembly line of dhimmis…


  28. really wonder why oldtimer always jumps in to atanu’s defence. cant he defend himself civilly against a 20 year old too?


  29. land of retards kills another human being..
    this time in k’tak where one newspaper dared to publish taslima nasreen’s article

    of course the blame lies with rightwing bjp i guess


  30. >> really wonder why oldtimer always jumps in to atanu’s defence.

    Good question my JNU friend. One of the marks of a civilized mind is that it often turns the gaze inward. Introspection is not for the dogmatic. Therefore allow me to admit, in all immodesty, that I pondered on this very question long before you asked. Why do I “jump to the defence” of people like Atanu?

    Because I share passionately-held ideas, values and beliefs with them. I admire them for articulating and defending those values better than I do. Because I own stakes, as much as they do, in the said defence and articulation. Ergo, I see attacks on them as challenges thrown at myself.

    Knowledge of the self gives deep insights into the other. Take, purely as an example, any person who happens be a Catholic Christian and also a commie; an ardent defender of Islamic fundamentalism and unabashed admirer of the terrorists of the world: Palestinian, Kashmiri, Chechen … Why does he spend his lifetime jumping to Islam’s defence? Why is he more loyal than the Ayatollah himself, so to speak? Answer: the same impulse is at work. He shares “values” with them and admires them.

    Hope that helps.


  31. @oldtimer
    why are you so hung up on jnu? failed the entrance test? rejected in a faculty position? had a girl(boy)friend who ditched you for a jnu wallah?

    here’s something for you, assuming you are indeed a separate person. introspect in your “civilized” mind and see – maybe you are as islamic as your catholic commie friend.

    also, decide if i am an islamist, congress supporter or a jholawallah. surely i cannot be all 3 at the same time, or can i?


    1. rajkamal:

      First of all, it may be helpful if you address the points that oldtimer raises instead of constantly suspecting that I write under the oldtimer handle. It has not crossed your puny little mind that I am not the type to hide behind pseudonyms. Have you read anything that I have written and noticed that I call a spade a spade and I don’t have the slightest hesitation in telling you that you are a cretin? I note that oldtimer agrees with me on many issues but then if agreement was all it took to make people suspect that there was just one person masquerading as a multitude, it would be pretty silly.

      But you are silly. So that explains it. Now about the jnu bit. Are you schizophrenic as well as being retarded? Do you not really see that you post your email address as “”? Since you are faking the jnu email address, should one assume that you did not even get admission to a third-rate bottom of the barrel two-bit “university”?

      Finally, get over it you congressie islamists wanna-be jhollawala. You are all of them rolled into one nasty deal. Pity mixed with contempt comes close to what you should be regarded with.


  32. >>why are you so hung up on jnu?

    You surprise me mate. You posted with a JNU email so I addressed you as “JNU friend”. Why the defensiveness pal? Is it sooo infradig these days to be associated with JNU? Look, if you’re from ISI I’d have called you “ISI friend”. If from IIM I’d have said you’re “IIM friend”. Chill, and stop reading between the lines like those JNU types.


  33. @oldie
    wow. thats exactly how your friend hitler addressed some of his friends.

    i wonder how oldie happened to send me an email BEFORE you put my “address” on the comments? or how my first moderated comment elicited an answer from oldie in the same batch as my comment got approved? or why moderation was disabled after that.

    anyway, arrivederci. it was good fun flame-baiting you guys. nice to know that we aren’t significantly any less retarded than pakistan (remember my first comment?). my hypothesis is confirmed once, and i shall try to replicate results on rediff news and orkut now 🙂


  34. I don’t agree with Rajkamal that Atanu and Oldtimer are the same people. Since Atanu has made all his information public there is no need for him to hide behind pseudonyms.
    It is not like Atanu has not made his views public. Infact I really admire his courage in comming so openly against the communist, Islamist alliance.
    Rajkamal seems to be more interested in atacking Atanu rather than debating on the topics presented.


  35. I have been reading this blog for a while…I really like the comments section, some very smart people write here…..but then every decent movie needs a villain and a joker…so this blog has its fair share of them…. JNU’s very own Mr.RajKamal, the 20 year old genius humanist scholar soon to be trillionaire and a hearthrobe of a million adoring girls to boot Mr.Hrishikesh Chaudhary….these guys keep the comment section interesting…


    1. Ranger:

      Thanks for your comment. You are absolutely correct.

      The other day a friend of mine told me that as if to prove my point about retards and hypocrites, a few people obligingly left comments. It is as if they wanted to help me out. I had not given sufficient examples and they volunteered to be Exhibit A in the argument.


  36. “I don’t agree with Rajkamal that Atanu and Oldtimer are the same people.”


    I think “Amit” is another pseudonym you are using to save yourself. First Atanu, then Old Timer and then Amit… talk about multiple personality disorder! Tch Tch!

    Thinking about it, am I, Kedar another pseudonym for Atanu Dey as well?

    All advaita– sarve api brahmaaha na khalu?


    1. Kedar:

      As an advaitist (or should that be advaitantist?), I am sure that “I AM THAT.” I am not only Kedar, I am Rajkamal, and Amit, and Oldtimer, and every sentient being.

      It is just that I pretend to forget that I am all that. Thanks for reminding me, Kedar. Thank me for reminding me. All this is deliciously mysterious.


  37. Err .. one question.

    Freedom of expression applies equally to everyone isnt it? Be it Taslima Nasrin or M F Husain?

    Need I explain my point more?


    1. Someone:

      If you have to ask this question, you have missed the point.

      The point is freedom of expression is non-negotiable. Which part of it is difficult to understand? Which part of it puts conditions on who is allowed the freedom and who is disallowed?

      Need I explain my point more?


  38. Alright, just few questions.

    Are _you_ unhappy about Husain’s depictions? Are _you_ okay (or sort of okay) with cases slapped on him?


  39. Atanu

    You spend an awful lot of time accussing Indians of being retards for electing the politicians that we have. I may understand this rhetoric if it aims to win over followers by some method.
    However, if you truly believe it, I’d like to suggest the Public Choice school of economics for you. I know, that sounds terribly condescending of me, especially since I’m not even an economist. But I believe the notion of collective responsibility for politicians is false in light of all the insights from public choice, and also from Bryan Caplan’s “Myth of the Rational Voter”


    1. Contemplationist:

      Here’s something from an old post of mine (May 2007)

      Incentive Matters

      Alistair Cooke in his weekly radio broadcast on BBC Radio 4, A Letter from America, once explained the theory of public choice to his listeners as “the homely but important truth that the politicians are after all just the same as the rest of us.” It is an accessible, though incomplete, definition of what public choice is about. You could read James Buchanan, who in 1986 won the “The Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel” (popularly known as the Nobel Prize in Economics) “for his development of the contractual and constitutional bases for the theory of economic and political decision-making.” But Cook’s version is adequate for our needs to explain why the Indian educational system is a disaster.

      Politicians and bureaucrats are motivated by self-interest, and the will to power and control is deeply ingrained in them, perhaps more so than in the average person. Monopoly control of any market or institution is heady power. Controlling the educational sector is gives them an enormously powerful lever for controlling the economy. It is therefore quite understandable that the opposition to relinquishing that power would be formidable. The greatest challenge that India faces in reforming its educational system arises from this, not perhaps so much from a lack of understanding of what needs to be done, or how it is to be done. It is hard to overestimate the power of vested interests amassed against doing what is rational in education.

      I suggest the work of Buchanan. I also think that the collective retardedness of the Indian voters has much explanatory power of why India is in trouble. Do you have an alternative theory to propose?


  40. No single theory will explain an insanely complex system like the Indian political economy. However, grasping for curses is the laziest one.

    I think its a combination of

    1) Ignorance – Lots of illiteracy.
    2) “Rational” Irrationality – The cost of irrationality for majority of Indian voters is abysmally low. Their single vote has almost no effect on the outcome, thereby allowing them to vote their irrationality prejudices.

    3) Socialist status quo – There is no mainstream faction visible to the populace making a coherent, credible case for market-based policy, debunking the nonsense that politicians and mushy-headed journalists put out everyday. Blogs are surely changing this with rearguard action (yours included!) at least for those young and in the middle-class.
    This will take decades though its happening.

    You could include a dozen other theories. The above are my best guesses.

    Whats surprising to me is, if my (limited) knowledge of Indian agricultural policy is correct, why hasn’t a bright, young, political entrepreneur emerged who could sow the seed of freedom in farmers’ minds? Someone who can, without hedging, campaign for removal of restrictions on farmers’ property rights, their rights to labor and freedom to sell their produce in the open market without price controls? Economic theory predicts that, in this case, the BENEFITS are extremely clear to the farmer, are in his immediate self-interest as well. So why hasn’t such a politician emerged capitalising on such an immense opportunity when a big majority of the population is engaged in agriculture?

    So ….thats my start


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