Sorry people, I have been distracted with things — traveling places, meeting important people, thinking deep thoughts — you know the drill 🙂 So do write what’s on your mind in the comments. It’s been a while since the last open thread. Say what you will. Also, here are a few random things that I have come across recently.
Dawkins and his unholy comrade in arms Hitchens are hatching a very cunning plan to have Papa Benny arrested when he visits UK in September. Warms the cockles of my heart that they are working to bring the satanic head of the evil empire to pay for his “crimes against humanity.”
Talking about crimes against humanity closer to home, PRAJATANTRA has a post on “living in the shadow of insecurity“. Included in that post is an image of an advertisement (paid for with your tax money) which has the pictures of His Master’s Puppet and the Puppet Master. I include that picture here to add some color to this post.
The Puppet — aka Blue Turban — has made it so easy for India’s enemies that a bunch of jihadists — just 10 of them, not a nuclear bomb, not a flotilla of warships, not a huge squadron of American-gifted bombers and fighter planes, not a thousand China-gifted tanks — no, just 10 guys with backpacks — launched “an Audacious Assault on India’s Prestige and an Affront to its People.”
What has brought us to this that 10 semi-trained, crazed Islamic terrorists can launch an “audacious assault” and that too keep it up for 3 f**king days! The “Land of Gandhi”! Yes of course, the land of Gandhi, and Nehru, and the Italian Gandhi.
Pardon my cynicism, but the people deserve all this shit and more because they voted for the Congress party (and also those who tacitly allowed this party to rule by not voting at all). Karma is a bitch.
And it is all karma, neh?
Talking of karma, here’s a restaurant that takes the idea of karma seriously — the Karma Kitchen in Berkeley.
Karma Kitchen first opened in Berkeley on March 31st 2007, by several volunteers inspired to seed the value of a “gift economy”.
Run by volunteers, our meals are cooked and served with love, and offered to the guest as a genuine gift. To complete the full circle of giving and sustain this experiment, guests make contributions in the spirit of pay-it-forward to those who will come after them. In keeping this chain going, the generosity of both guests and volunteers helps to create a future that moves from transaction to trust, from self-oriented isolation to shared commitment, and from fear of scarcity to celebration of abundance.
More food for thought, now. Gandhi was whitewashed by people who used him to further their own cause. For decades the Congress party has used Gandhi as its mascot, and so nothing unsavory was ever allowed to be published in India. Censorship in today’s age of them internets is as effective as praying for the suspension of natural laws. So Congress can do f***-all about the truth coming out — in little trickles right now and later as a flood that will drown the whole unholy edifice that the Congress party erected over the last 60 years.
“Thrill of the chaste: The truth about Gandhi’s sex life” reads the headline of an article published in The Independent of UK. Some excerpts:
Gandhi found it easy to embrace poverty. It was chastity that eluded him. So he worked out a series of complex rules which meant he could say he was chaste while still engaging in the most explicit sexual conversation, letters and behaviour.
With the zeal of the convert, within a year of his vow, he told readers of his newspaper Indian Opinion: “It is the duty of every thoughtful Indian not to marry. In case he is helpless in regard to marriage, he should abstain from sexual intercourse with his wife.”
Meanwhile, Gandhi was challenging that abstinence in his own way. He set up ashrams in which he began his first “experiments” with sex; boys and girls were to bathe and sleep together, chastely, but were punished for any sexual talk. Men and women were segregated, and Gandhi’s advice was that husbands should not be alone with their wives, and, when they felt passion, should take a cold bath.
The rules did not, however, apply to him. Sushila Nayar, the attractive sister of Gandhi’s secretary, also his personal physician, attended Gandhi from girlhood. She used to sleep and bathe with Gandhi. When challenged, he explained how he ensured decency was not offended. “While she is bathing I keep my eyes tightly shut,” he said, “I do not know … whether she bathes naked or with her underwear on. I can tell from the sound that she uses soap.” The provision of such personal services to Gandhi was a much sought-after sign of his favour and aroused jealousy among the ashram inmates.
As he grew older (and following Kasturba’s death) he was to have more women around him and would oblige women to sleep with him whom – according to his segregated ashram rules – were forbidden to sleep with their own husbands. Gandhi would have women in his bed, engaging in his “experiments” which seem to have been, from a reading of his letters, an exercise in strip-tease or other non-contact sexual activity. Much explicit material has been destroyed but tantalising remarks in Gandhi’s letters remain such as: “Vina’s sleeping with me might be called an accident. All that can be said is that she slept close to me.” One might assume, then, that getting into the spirit of the Gandhian experiment meant something more than just sleeping close to him.
It can’t, one imagines, can have helped with the “involuntary discharges” which Gandhi complained of experiencing more frequently since his return to India. He had an almost magical belief in the power of semen: “One who conserves his vital fluid acquires unfailing power,” he said.
Meanwhile, it seemed that challenging times required greater efforts of spiritual fortitude, and for that, more attractive women were required: Sushila, who in 1947 was 33, was now due to be supplanted in the bed of the 77-year-old Gandhi by a woman almost half her age. While in Bengal to see what comfort he could offer in times of inter-communal violence in the run-up to independence, Gandhi called for his 18-year-old grandniece Manu to join him – and sleep with him. “We both may be killed by the Muslims,” he told her, “and must put our purity to the ultimate test, so that we know that we are offering the purest of sacrifices, and we should now both start sleeping naked.”
Such behaviour was no part of the accepted practice of bramacharya. He, by now, described his reinvented concept of a brahmachari as: “One who never has any lustful intention, who, by constant attendance upon God, has become proof against conscious or unconscious emissions, who is capable of lying naked with naked women, however beautiful, without being in any manner whatsoever sexually excited … who is making daily and steady progress towards God and whose every act is done in pursuance of that end and no other.” That is, he could do whatever he wished, so long as there was no apparent “lustful intention”. He had effectively redefined the concept of chastity to fit his personal practices. [Emphasis added.]
I don’t care who sleeps with whom. It’s hypocrisy that I cannot tolerate. It’s the “do as I say, not as I do” that rankles. It’s Gandhi’s holier-than-thou image gets my goat. I am eagerly looking forward to the day when the carefully crafted oh-so-pure images of Nehru, Mrs Indira Gandhi, Mr Rajiv Gandhi, Mr Rahul Gandhi and other assorted members of the whole sordid family is finally revealed to be as fake as a three-dollar bill. It won’t be long.
Atanu Dey : Life is a Random Draw 
In the 2nd advertisement (in response to the naxal violence)in Prajatantra’s post, it seems to appear as if Madam Sonia is Mother India with her right hand raised as if to reassure the country that we all have her blessings. Oh, I feel so safe with this constant eternal vigil by Mother India.
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That article on Gandhi creeps me out. Now I can never look at our currency notes in the same way as before!
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what kind of sick man Gandhi was ! Thanks for the post. Hard to believe but there are unwashed masses for whom Gandhi was a brahmchari and as pure as his white dress.
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Gandhi was a truly great man. This kind of article is par for the course in Britain, where people still believe British colonization was good for India. There’s the usual comparison of Gandhi with Churchill, the “Gandhi was racist” articles, and of course the “Gandhi was a sexual predator” articles. The Independent is a tabloid. The Brits are still smarting from Gandhi’s effective ability to take the moral high ground away from them. (In case that needs an explanation: for almost 80 years, Brits had the West convinced that the Indians deserved whatever treatment the Brits handed out. Then came Gandhi, and the West was never able to claim the moral upper hand again.)
Those who harp on the sexual aspects at Sabarmati are usually carefully disingenuous. There is a hint that Gandhi was defending himself, that his depravity was somehow discovered and he had to justify it. That’s nonsense. Gandhi set up rules and pretty much published them. Everybody in India and abroad knew all of these things from Gandhi’s own mouth. He wrote about sleeping naked with young girls in his own autobiography. People all over the world and in India respected him knowing about these things. Not because they loved depraved people but because they understood the reasons for these sexual experiments.
Articles such as these are not new. I’d guess at least 20 such articles have been published every year in Britain over the last 70 years or so, along with the “Gandhi hates Blacks” arguments (never mind that Mandela and MLK Jr were primarily inspired by Gandhi — no doubt some people believe they weren’t smart enough to know all this stuff about Gandhi). These articles carefully suppress the fact that it wasn’t about satisfying his own sexual cravings; it was about fighting them. I don’t have to defend Gandhi, but since there’s such a lot of disinformation here (and people here seem to take this disinformation without verifying elsewhere): he did it because he wanted to remain ascetic, and as a test of his own self-control. It’s also bullshit that forced people to do this. He stopped the practice as soon as he was informed the girls were uncomfortable with it.
There are those who want to see it as depraved. And nothing’s going to change their mind. They don’t hate Gandhi because of the “depravity”; they call it depravity because they hate Gandhi.
This blog seems to have an ongoing vendetta against Gandhi. That’s ok; anyone has the right to publish whatever they feel like. It started (I think) with an article based on some sort of spur-of-the-moment theory about how the British loved Gandhi, and this proves Gandhi was an enemy of India. Yes, it’s far-fetched and random. Even if the theory is right its premise is patently wrong.
I don’t really care about the opinion of one person, but it would be a pity if readers here began believing some of this stuff because of the lopsided information on this blog. I’d suggest people read about Gandhi’s sexual practices independently, and also read the relevant sections of his autobiography, before drawing any conclusions.
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Mr. Atanu, Brilliant piece on Gandhi. I had read previous accounts of his ‘escapades’ earlier; this one takes the cake. Apart from being a “sexual predator” would he qualify as a pedophile too?
What qualification does he have to be printed on the bank notes? All the while, the true heroes of Indian Independence get sidelined. The original thinkers. The leaders who toiled hard to get public opinion against the colonizers.
Interestingly, we use their language to communicate. Ironic, isn’t it?
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You have to note that the cover up was from Congress and not from Gandhi himself. He was open all during his lifetime, and freely talked and wrote about his sexual ideas and experiments without any intentions of secrecy. Even some of the journalists from outside of India, who had access to him, and who came across this behavior were quite puzzled, and wrote about this. He even wrote to some of them trying to explain it to them. I wouldn’t call that a cover up. You could take quotes from different times in his life and easily see the contradictions, not just about ideas on sex but on everything. He was actually for casteism without privileges for any caste initially. He later was not really sympathetic to that idea because of it’s practical considerations. That’s not hypocrisy. It was actually his strength that he was willing to consider any principle and take it or leave it based on whatever he found. The advise about sex he gave to others were in a different station of life, and he was merely advising them on what he would have done in their age. Infact, he lamented throughout his life that he would have achieved ten fold than he did, had he been able to observe Brahmacharya. And he was constantly trying to impart the importance of Brahmacharya to all those around him. He acknowledged that he had failed in it, but nevertheless, it was something that he wanted people close to him to follow, or at least strive for. A married man with children advocating brahmacharya is outright hypocritical for anyone to see, and he was not trying to set himself as any kind of a role model for that. Being religious, it is not surprising that he advocated Brahmacharya or at least thought that it was a nobler objective to strive for. His belief in power when semen is controlled is quite well known in all three Indian traditions, namely Hinduism, Jainism and Buddhism. Even Swami Vivekananda said that a man can achieve anything in his life if he practiced brahmacharya and attributed his achievements to the power of brahmacharya.
You could see him using the word “experiment” all throughout his life. He was trying various natural cures and diets, and called it experiments on his body. He called his initial political actions as experiments in ahimsa. As is well known, he named his book, “the story of my experiments in truth”. It is no surprise that he chose to call his methods to repress or transcend sexual thoughts as sexual experiments. In fact, he took most of his ideas from tantrism, and tried to create to create a hodge podge of it to figure out its workings. There are notes on how he experimented with his wife initially. How he would try to test his sexual control while lying naked with her. There was no secret about any of it. Everyone in the ashram knew about it. This was no secret, behind the walls stuff that everyone was hushed about. It was congress that thought this crankiness might upset the freedom movement and gandhi’s image, and tried to cover it up. If you do not know, some of the women he slept with were actually married. He did so after getting permission from the women and her husband. He even was planning to marry after Kasturba’s death but was dissuaded about it. It’s all there in his letters and others’ thoughts on him, for anybody to see. You could accuse him of crankiness in his sexual ideas, but not somebody who took extra measures to cover it up or being hypocritical about it. That blame goes to Congress.
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Have to agree with Armchair Guy here. Nothing new there in that Brit tabloid stuff that hasn’t already been said before. Same old story of white guys looking at Gandhi through their own cultural prism and projecting their weaknesses on to him.
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Gandi was a weirdo in many ways–I don’t like anything about him apart from the fact that he was extremely determined–and he accomplished a lot because of this. Read his biography–his self-consciousness is irritaing in the extreme (seems to have had a lot of complexes)–the man as portrayed by himself in his bio comes across as annoying. He certainly was no leader of mine–reminds me of something unpleasant and meek…His main preoccupation in life seems to have been diet and sex (in the sense of constantly testing himself). Weirdo. However he is to be credited with arousing Indian nationalism and whether one likes him or not, he inspired successful movements elsewhere such as in South Africa and the civil rights movement in America. But as a person, I just can’t stand the man nor the ideals he stood up for…He might be a leader to many, but he certainly is not my leader…
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As for the above comments they are nothing new–I recall that Naipaul also thought something similar about Gandhi in one of his books. However, the man inspired successful movements–and history favors those who succeed. This is in no way to diminish what Gandhi achieved–I just don’t believe in his ideals… which strike me as against nature…bye the way, I like people such as Savarkar, Bose, Patel as leaders. I was recently reading Savarkar’s bio–a very handsome, intelligent leader–he was. Nehru and Congress ran a villification campaign by associating him with the death of Gandhi, and they have been largely successful considering that today Savarkar’s accomplishments are not that known amongst the general public and largely forgotten….
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Larissa, through her comments, has exactly echoed my thoughts about Gandhi. Additionally, its a no-brainer that Gandhi indirectly is responsible for the ills we have been facing, as a nation, since our independence, as he was the person who over-ruled the near unanimous decision of the Congress Working committee of having proposed Sardar Patel as the first Prime Minister of independent India, by having his (Gandhi’s) choice of Chacha Nahru being anointed instead, and hence the perpetuation of the Gandhi-Nehru dynasty in our midst… 😦 Also, for all his ‘holier-than-thou’ attitude, Gandhi, through his followers, displayed utter contempt for Netaji Bose’s approach towards India’s fight for independence, when in 1939, after Netaji got elected to the post of Congress president, defeating Dr. Pattabhi Sitaramaiyya, Gandhi’s preferred candidate. Gandhi’s followers made life hell for Netaji, so much so that eventually He resigned and left India. So much so for ‘tolerance’ on Gandhi’s part. Also, his lectures about tolerance and ahimsa were reserved for Hindus only, he never showed any spine or courage in standing up to the bullying tactics of Muslims — remember Ali brothers’ (Mohammed & Shaukat) contempt for Gandhi and his methods. And last but not the east, we should not forget what Smt. Sarojini Naidu had to say about the great Mahatma: “It costs a lot to keep Gandhi poor”! 🙂
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Two points- Please comment-
1. Dawkins and Hitchens may plan all they want. sadly, they will not be able to accomplish the arrest of Pope. The latter will have the diplomatic immunity as per international law. After all, pope is the king (head of state) of vatican city/country.
2. How come Rahul Gandhis sexapades were never exposed up until now? He is the annonted king, right? I heard he spends long evenings in south american missions in delhi.Or did someone say he is gay? cheers
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To tell you the truth I could not control my laughter when I read that part about Gandhi and his sexual experiments.
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Surya if Rahul Gandhi is really gay then it is something we should celebrate since we wont have to tolerate another generation of Gandhi in this country.
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@Sundried Atheist
>>… if Rahul Gandhi is really gay then it is something we should celebrate since we wont have to tolerate another generation of Gandhi in this country….
Gr8 response…LMAO! 😀
Aah..it would be the day if what you say turns out to be true…but my dear friend as they say:
If wishes were horses…beggars would ride!:P..ain’t it?
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Atanu,
Have you covered the Maoist problem. Since you are a Bengali, you might be in a better position to explain if the support Maoists are able to garner is because of locals supporting them out of solidarity, or is it because of coercion through terrorizing by Maoists?
Thanks!
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Jay, I don’t rule out the possibility for anything, no matter how bizarre it may sound. Hell I am even open to the idea of the presence of an inter galactic supernatural dictator who watches us throughout our lives.
As far as Rahul Gandhi is concerned, this fellow does not have a particularly bright future. While he does have a Gandhi surname you have to agree that this fellow is not particularly bright, nor does he have the charisma of his grandmum or his dad. All in all Rahul is a dim wit who won’t survive politics for a very long time.
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Dude Ketan, your Gravatar is appearing upside down, unless you intended it to be that way. Just though I’ll let you know.
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Well, SunDied Atheist, thanks for your concern for my gravatar, but my photographer had intended it to be that way: http://blogger.com/profile/02622410643454108685
Also, are you and sundried atheist same persons?
I believe you & Jai_C are getting unnecessarily enthusiastic. When Priyanka Wadhera’s son had turned one (not born), the news of birthday celebration was on page 3 (of main sheet) of Times of India.
With regard to Rahul Gandhi, I won’t dispute your assessment of his abilities, but believe, he will indeed have a longish stint at the center of Indian politics, if Congress comes to power yet again (quite likely). You’re probably underestimating the intelligence of his mom, or whoever is advising the family (rumored to be Ambika Soni). Sonia Gandhi has been able to achieve almost mutually antagonistic twin goals of keeping Congress the most powerful party despite not allowing any leader to gain a mass appeal apart from Rahul.
Three powerful Congress leaders with mass appeal have already met with freak accidents & died in this decade – of course because it was all willed by the God!
With regard to someone being gay, I am afraid (and when I say this, I mean really afraid), in a few years human cloning should be possible. 😦 Under normal mode of sexual reproduction there was some hope of useless genes getting contaminated by some useful genes at least, but asexual reproduction rules out even that. 😦
Lastly, Sundried atheist, do you have a blog?
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sundried atheists and fellow bloggers,
he is gay by any measure honestly. he did not preach ‘abstinence until marriage’ and he did not declare a girl friend up until now. his age and reach he commands ,understandably, will enable him to satisfy his needs. but again in todyas commercial environment some insider can sell a sleazy tape for a very huge sum. dont tell me our media are not that nasty bro. the competition is stiffling out there with all those channels looking for better viewer rates.cheers
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Hello Ketan, the answer to your first question is yes. I was using a different computer yesterday and hence I happened to muddle up the spelling of ‘Sundried Atheist” in a hurry.
As to your last question, no I don’t have a blog and I am not planning to have one in the near future. However I do have a friend’s blog coming up in August to which I will contribute my two cents as and when time allows me.
Now coming to the question of Rahul Gandhi and his mum and Ambika Soni. Let me clarify a few things, neither Sonia nor Ambika will be there forever. Let us not forget that time plays havoc with everone’s thought process and the older we get usually the more miserable our thinking gets, especially in the case of politcians who just can’t let the mantle pass on to the younger generation.
As for cloning, well, as of now that idea sounds too far fetched, althought it can’t be totally denied with the great advances in science that are occuring on a daily basis. Either ways Rahul can only survive till his mum is there with him.
Now Priyanka gandhi’s son might have brought a few cheers to the staff of TOI, but that does not mean anything. Don’t forget that ours is a patiachal society and only the male descendants are considered as heirs. Indira was an exception to the rule due to several reasons, however I have doubts if that experiment can be repeated again, although again the possibilty cannot be completely denied.
As for your blog pic, well I happened to click on the click on your link and I found out the whole story behind it. I must say an interesting take on things.
Take care buddy!
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Atanu:
What is common to Sri Sri Ravi Shankar and Deepak Chopra?
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Kedar: I don’t know what is common to SSRS and DC aside from the obvious that they both appear to be males, that they have a huge fan followings, and that they believe that they are holier-than-thou.
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Atanu, have you ever taken the MBTI test? if yes, what’s your type?
If you haven’t can you please take this and let us know here …thanks
Link to the test- http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp
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FordPrefect:
I went to the link and took the test. It said:
In the Type Description of the Fieldmarshal (ENTJ), it says:
Thanks.
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Atanu:
The answer is Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.
A disciple of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi,[Sri Sri Ravi] Shankar joined Maharishi’s entourage after graduation, being taught by Vedic pundits at Maharishi’s charities ( wikipedia).
——-
In 1985, Chopra met Maharishi Mahesh Yogi who invited him to study Ayurveda.In that same year, Chopra left his position at the New England Memorial Hospital and became the founding president of the American Association of Ayurvedic Medicine, and was later named medical director of the Maharishi Ayurveda Health Center for Stress Management and Behavioral Medicine(wikipedia).
Thats where its all coming from.
Of course, since Transcendental Meditation is a copyrighted term, SSRS has gone for Sudarshana Kriya and the DQ has gone for mind-body spiritual medicine.
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“Oh-so-pure images of Indira Gandhi, Nehru etc?”… what? Indira’s three term rule as PM (for those old enough to truly comprehend the nature of the changes she caused) is one of the biggest causes of India’s sad state of affairs today. The whole license-raj and corruption system was sort of institutionalized by this woman and her cronies. Smart but crooked businessmen like Ambani truly thrived in this atmosphere. He had the Nehru-Gandhi family in his pocket.
As for Mr. “Hame Dekhna Hai” Rajeev, he was charismatic, but every bit as crooked. He had the Bofors deal all sewn up and came away scot free even though he was one of the biggest culprits in the bribery scandal.
Now Sonia is the puppet master (or mistress) controlling Mr. bobby-head Singh who is an utter failure as a prime minister, his achievements over this term could have been done by a programmed 8-bit computer with 32K of memory. He has done absolutely nothing but keep blabbering nationalistic sounding nothings. Look at the Mumbai attacks, any nation with the cojones would have launched an outright attack and decimated the terrorists hometown (you know which country I mean).
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armch. & oldt.etc.,
that “such info. is tabloid,already known”,clears the air?
i haven’t seen any logical/factual rebuttal of these claims by any body till date.if you have pls provide,a lot of people will be thankfull including me.the girls who were sleeping with him were probably related or enamoured,their consent was under a state of delirium induced by a feeling of greatness by being in company of a ‘great’ man.it was not a rational consent.thus gandhi was guilty of misusing the trust placed on him by his followers.what if nithyanand says the same.those girls were certainly not in a similar state of mind i.e. they were not benchmarking themselves against his presence.had he been really interested in such an “experiment” he should have called for volunteers to seduce him,and then should have ranked himself.
regarding his acheivements for the country,the only ones i can list are:-
1.champaran neel agitation.
2.the salt agitation.
apparently these were giveaways from a crafty regime which wanted to use his services in keeping the masses in trance so that the english could carry on with their designs with minimum fuss.
he was a man who used all the vile means at his command like subterfuge(for renaming feroze khan to feroze gandhi),overawing(overturning the election of subhash bose,planting nehru inspite of strong opposition),malintentionaly leading(ignoring massacres after khilafat,asking partition refugees to return and offer themselves as willing and loving baits),misreprsenting(pretending to be having knowledge of islam when he had none regarding the killer manuals) etc.
of course he can’t be blamed if none could stand up to his and nehru’s crookedness.we have to find out the reasons as to why
people like savarkar did not attract the attention/adulation that they deserved while the crooks had it in full.
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seriously, it is depressing to watch on american TV Mr MMS as the leader of india. no offence, its truth neverthless.i hope he wont get a third term in stupid congress party, much better if congress is tronced in next election.
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Sundried atheist,
By somewhat longish stint I had meant next 10 years for Rahul.
I was just joking with the example of cloning. 🙂
I’m not sure about the patriarchal preference when it comes to the family. Look at the de facto ruler currently. She’s the party chief & running the country, and much worse, sans a shred of responsibility or accountability. Yet of course, if the family is not able to maintain power in the interim, and Priyanka’s son does not directly takeover from Rahul after ‘growing up’, I hope the family will lose grip over the country. Her son could be around 10 years old now. Our country has only 8 more years to get literate, educated and sufficiently wise to see through the family’s disservice to the masses and start resenting it. 😦
Do let me know when you write. It would certainly be interesting. 🙂
Take care, you too.
Jagdish S.,
I thought it should just have been a keyboard, & not a computer with such a tremendous processing power! 😉
ashwani,
What you say looks quite plausible. Alas, I’m using my real ID, which links to my blog. 😦
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Atanu,
I was wondering if you’d had a chance to read this article that appeared in last week’s Time magazine:
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1978589,00.html
Would be interesting to see your comments on this study.
Nandini
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